tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post4734873207529493006..comments2024-02-20T16:10:31.948-07:00Comments on First Nerve: Olfactory Genius: Smells Real and ImaginedAvery Gilberthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18104017679971839738noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-59284094629344443002010-02-12T13:44:27.244-07:002010-02-12T13:44:27.244-07:00You know, I was thinking on the way home today tha...You know, I was thinking on the way home today that it'd be super-fascinating to test how much correlation there is between people who have exceptionally well developed ability to recognise patterns and olfactory ability/genius. Unless it's already been done?Nukapaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13881855160203686415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-6830895243744109162010-02-10T05:25:45.991-07:002010-02-10T05:25:45.991-07:00Brilliant :D :D :D Those definitely tickled me. Ma...Brilliant :D :D :D Those definitely tickled me. Maybe I could make First Nerve - for the true perfumphile. :)Nukapaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13881855160203686415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-41335098258940287462010-02-09T22:57:10.444-07:002010-02-09T22:57:10.444-07:00carmencanada:
Well observed. As a teacher you not...carmencanada:<br /><br />Well observed. As a teacher you notice differences among people who are presumably highly motivated to begin with. Think how much bigger the variation is in a random sample of people.<br /><br />To Ed C's point--there ought to be aptitude and achievement tests for smell. The former to identify prospects for perfumery school, the latter to measure the effectiveness of the training. I don't know of any tests that have been rigorously studied.Avery Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18104017679971839738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-794652264620495682010-02-09T22:43:39.286-07:002010-02-09T22:43:39.286-07:00Nukapai:
Maybe you can dream up some wonderful sc...Nukapai:<br /><br />Maybe you can dream up some wonderful scents to fill the geek-chic niche.<br /><br /><i>Transformed</i> by Fourier<br /><br /><i>Fitted Curve</i>--the new skin scent with exponential smoothing.<br /><br /><i>Autocorrelation</i>--for the naughty statistician in you.Avery Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18104017679971839738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-12839709658528055572010-02-09T04:40:22.633-07:002010-02-09T04:40:22.633-07:00This has interested me enough to find some psych p...This has interested me enough to find some psych papers on olfactory imaging. As of 2004-2005, the ones I found began by saying that the very existence of the ability to menatlly re-expereince a smell was controversial. Each paper concluded that some people probably can do it some of the time. I haven't finished the long review yet, but in what I've read, Avery was the only one who studied any professionals at all. It occurs to me that the existence of visual imagery might be controversial if no painters, sculptors, photographers, architects or interior designers were ever studied.<br /><br />How much of our poor ability to imagine smells is because we are never trained? We won't know until there's some method of training that can be widely applied.Ed Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-60035665971454622972010-02-08T23:36:39.933-07:002010-02-08T23:36:39.933-07:00Re: Ed C's question.
When I gave my perfume ...Re: Ed C's question. <br /><br />When I gave my perfume appreciation course at the London College of Fashion, I had a very diverse group of 15 people (age, country of origin, profession, level of knowledge/interest in perfume). <br /><br />I found that the ability to connect smells to words, or smells between themselves, was indeed very variable, and not necessarily related to a developed "perfume culture". My 15-people sample was certainly insufficient and there was no formal method of evaluation, but the two 50-something, non-perfumista members of the group had two the keenest noses. I put it down to having more scent-memories in store. I did find that everybody's ability developed within a few hours, so that I'm fairly confident that training and focus (synaesthetic associations, verbal cues) can develop the "tuning-in".<br /><br />I have found this to be true for myself: the more I study perfumes and raw materials, the more frequently I "hallucinate" smells that aren't there, sometimes through random thought processes, sometimes when I am speaking or thinking about them, but oddly, more often when I'm speaking.<br /><br />In a totally unscientific way, I feel the neural pathways associating smells to words are becoming more entrenched, and thus, easier to find/travel on.<br />I suspect this is the case for many perfume lovers, and probably often dictates their choice of fragrance in the morning.carmencanada /Grain de Muschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046101625425953248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-3350837995531294972010-02-06T02:19:11.033-07:002010-02-06T02:19:11.033-07:00That's really fascinating; I am now tempted to...That's really fascinating; I am now tempted to record instances of scented dreams and try to work out how often they occur over a year. Mr. Gilbert, your data and methods appeal to the geek AND the perfumer in me. (Hope you'll write another book one day). :)Nukapaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13881855160203686415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-5575942131916940602010-02-05T20:36:49.662-07:002010-02-05T20:36:49.662-07:00BitterGrace & Nukapai:
The first studies, ove...BitterGrace & Nukapai:<br /><br />The first studies, over 100 years ago, put the percentage of olfactory dreams at no more than 20% of all dreams. A McGill study in 1998 using dream diaries put the number closer to 1%; however, 21% of women and 2% of the men had had at least one scented dream in their life. My take: dream smelling is a widespread but low frequency phenomenon that has a female gender bias.<br /><br />Among female scent enthusiasts & perfumers, I'd expect the percentages to be higher.Avery Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18104017679971839738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-82506595471078921852010-02-05T11:56:27.287-07:002010-02-05T11:56:27.287-07:00Ed C & Queen Cupcake:
My late friend the soci...Ed C & Queen Cupcake:<br /><br />My late friend the social psychologist John Sabini claimed he had no visual mental imagery. I used to think he was just being provocative but it turns out there’s a good deal of variation in this ability. So maybe he wasn’t much of an imager—although he excelled at logic and rhetorical analysis.<br /><br />On the other hand, imaginary perception can be powerful enough to substitute for actual perception: think of Beethoven composing while deaf, or the perfumer who allegedly continued to formulate after losing his sense of smell.<br /><br />As I note in <i>WTNK</i>, the core of perfumery training consists of memorizing hundreds of smells; imagery is helpful if not essential to this task. I’d bet that with practice a person with modest olfactory imagery could improve it, and I’d also bet that evidence of this could be seen with fMRI imaging.Avery Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18104017679971839738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-91989711506303995592010-02-05T09:36:39.117-07:002010-02-05T09:36:39.117-07:00I find this incredibly interesting, and like Ed C,...I find this incredibly interesting, and like Ed C, would love to know the answers to his questions. Thank you.queen_cupcakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18364405341560661291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-35706406760860055092010-02-04T13:10:35.564-07:002010-02-04T13:10:35.564-07:00Oh wow! I would LOVE to do that questionnaire! (I&...Oh wow! I would LOVE to do that questionnaire! (I'm a trainee perfumer and have had a fabulous week in the lab this week - finally cracked something that had been bugging me and funnily enough, I've been formulating in my dreams and then wake up with the solution!).Nukapaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13881855160203686415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-83602462771998178262010-02-04T09:22:55.197-07:002010-02-04T09:22:55.197-07:00avery,
Can this critical olfactive imagery be impo...avery,<br />Can this critical olfactive imagery be imporved? That is, are we (a) born with a certain ability, (b) accidentally develop some level of ability early in life while the brain is still most plastic, (c) trainable at any age to make more connections, associations, etc., or (d) it's something else I haven't thought of? I obviously hope the answer is (c) But I've never found any description of an olfactive imaging training program.<br /><br />Thanks.Ed Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8125354955146250762.post-36760865389738797682010-02-04T08:22:26.026-07:002010-02-04T08:22:26.026-07:00Fascinating stuff that seems to confirm the experi...Fascinating stuff that seems to confirm the experience of most scent freaks. The pleasure or pain of sniffing is inseparable from imaginative engagement. <br /><br />Maybe I didn't read the dream smells post closely enough, but I didn't see a discussion of the percentage of olfactory dreams that definitely have no external stimulus. How many of us routinely dream in smells that aren't actually present?BitterGracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18262639525430954930noreply@blogger.com